The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Can you hear me? Check, check, check, I want to make sure we can also hear them.
Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed speakers, guests, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon and good evening. You're welcome to today's session, my name is Abdul Ghayoor Bawary, committee member. Privilege for me to serve as moderator.
We are gathered here to explore, discuss and inspire. This is organized by teaching assistant at Geneva University. Also with me as remote moderator. First I would like to extend my warm welcome to our distinguished speaker. Thank you for your willingness to share your insights and expertise with us. Your contributions to play a vital role our collective understanding of empowering Afghan woman, bridging digital gaps for education.
First name my ‑‑ (audio difficulties) ‑‑ Senior Advisor. Policy and regulation IGF. Joining us in a few minutes, she will be coming, Maria Beebe, consultant IDG Asia Open RAN Academy. Join us remotely. Sajia Yarmal joining us remote.
We have Zhala Sarmast with technical technologies. Also join us remotely and we have Dr. Farzaneh Badiei, director of Digital Medusa. Last but not least, we will be having Maria Beebe, a lot of hats on. Introducing herself more for us. I'll be giving three to five speakers. They will be introducing themselves, their position, designation, for two to three minutes or three to five minutes. So first, I'll be giving the floor to our first speaker because she's already on site with us.
>> FARZANEH BADIEI: Thank you for joining us. Joining us in person or personally. I am Farzaneh Badiei, Senior Advisor strategy with the IGF Foundation based in New Delhi, India. Such a privilege to be able to have some space to comment on the various intersecting issues we're going to be discussing today, how to empower, how to empower women and how to empower Afghan women towards extremely important outcome. That is education.
Let me start by telling you a little bit about the foundation. Founded in 2017 and we have technical roots. Our partner organization which regional internet registry in the Asia Pacific, APNIC. We are mandated slightly broad issues towards internet development and digital development and digital transformation. 56 economies in Asia and Pacific. Work cross‑sectionally number of issues with partners and communities especially in South Asia and Pacific in Oceania.
Today's topic makes me wonder about the sort of collective impact we need to have a wide number of partners were governments to commercial entities to civil society to technical community as well as independent experts, academia to come together to address various issues with respect to the community that we're trying to address too, we're concerned with today. That is Afghan women including Afghan girls.
Gender‑diverse people in Afghanistan. Giving socioeconomic situation in Afghan today, many structural issues facing Afghan girls, women, gender diverse people in the country. Privacy on devices uses may not allow complete agency to use the such device, connectivity, meaningful access and ability to choose, have control over how the women and girls connect, how they participate in the digital economy, how they learn, how they work, connect with each other, how they access opportunities.
This is by no means a small task. It's a very tall order, very tall order. And it is not possible for any one entity to be able to solve on their own, even begin to address on their own, which is why would like to maybe bring forward a framework of collective, where we can partner with one another, where we can identify the gaps, identify the capabilities that need to be built, identify how we could partner with one another and bring into the equation devices, connectivity, access, digital literacy, even linguistic diversity considering that many, many women participants in this conversation actually not consuming information or even looking for opportunities in English or one of the more widely spoken, widely accepted languages in the world.
There are many, many issues, very many levels which I'm sure we'll get into, think my fellow panelists today living in Afghanistan or lived experiences in Afghanistan have so many more stories to tell and much informed than perhaps I can ever be. With that, I'll perhaps pass it back and happy to comment later.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. I would like to request each of our distinguished speakers to first shortly introduce themselves one by one. Then we'll be jumping to the questions. Thank you very much. Over to you.
>> ANJA GENGO: Thank you so much. Very good morning to everyone. I usually am not late for any of my meetings or sessions, but I think you'll understand me and excuse me, essential focal point or entity for the organization. And this is very first day when everything started. It's important, presentation of couple of months of work. Have to be multiplied places this morning.
Really coincidental I was just in a session called Women's Summit in Internet Governance, organized by a dear friend. We just spoke a lot about the importance of closing gender‑based digital divide, still alarming pace and overall speaking on statistics. Also good we are making progress looking back in the past two decades.
We mentioned quite a lot Afghanistan especially women and girls in Afghanistan, the challenging situation that they are now. We spoke about the denial of basic human rights which is right to education and how important digital especially now, it's really a lifeline for girls and women there where digital represents only opportunity to continue with education, to continue with networking, communicating, with others, channeling voices back and forth. And that is why the infrastructure itself is now more than ever important to be able to support implementation of human rights especially for women and girls there.
Spoke quite a lot about not long time ago, think it was 2019 maybe, when I had the pleasure to go also to Afghanistan to work with a lot of colleagues there. And on that particular note, it was one of the most impressive national IGFs in terms of participation and program structure because of the topic in terms of female empowerment that you can feel there when you are working with all of those people, I don't speak just about women and girls as such. I also speak about the men who were supporting their integration.
It was a wonderful cooperation we've seen and most recent examples, of course, are the disturbing and I think extremely important for the global community to address them and to do everything that is in our capacity to ensure that there isn't a girl or a woman on this planet that doesn't have basic human rights, which is the right to education to start firstly.
I hope there is enough capacity to do that and make a change in that sense. We spoke quite a lot at this session. Colleagues are moving through this session to come, about wonderful good practices that exist across the world in terms of supporting education for women and girls at that we are not relying any more on that conservative thought and structure that the education needs to be given to us by, for example, governmental structure, but that the multistakeholder model really plays a role in terms of setting up corporation and implementation for supporting various forms of education.
Spoke quite a lot about wonderful capacity development initiatives carrying out for educating women and girls, coding and robotics, in overall ICT understanding, also capacity involved one of our mandate the objectives. Within our capacity, we do everything we can to ensure that we have community engaged in internet governance special focus on women and girls, understanding parts of the world they are marginalized, vulnerable, don't have the same opportunities as men would have.
In that sense, one of the greatest partners to us are the national and youth IGF. Wonderful examples of capacity development just grassroots community efforts multistakeholder level directed to engaging communities, partnerships, sense of ownership of this type of processes. Most important, resulting stronger policies supporting the use of our digital technologies.
And then final point, I would like to say, level the IGF, we are also, through our structures, trying everything that we can to support gender parity being represented there.
I'll give you one example of the heart of IGF, especially in terms of programming, in terms of agenda we'll be discussing in the multistakeholder advisory group, achieve gender parity across the challenge. Last couple of years, managed to achieve gender parity, we have members represented which really makes the difference in terms of having really (audio difficulties) about the topics that we are discussing today.
On this agenda, next day and next four days, topics related to gender quality. All of them will result Riyadh IGF messages. That will be our collective voice to channel digital community to make a changed and ensure that women and girls are better represented in our society because they are really one of the key pillars of sustainable development and that means just better life quality for all of us.
With that, I have agenda to run. Really apologize. Catch up with all of you. Will be here the next five days. I look forward to meeting you all. Thank you very much.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you. Really appreciate it. Lots of engagements you have.
I'll be jumping to the next speaker. Introduce themselves and talk about their background. Message from my colleague, one or two speakers, very important. Maria and Dr. Farzaneh Badiei. I will come back. Distinguished speakers. Thank you very much for joining.
I will be given time to settle here. Go to the youngest speakers.
>> ZHALA SARMAST, can everybody hear me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Ask technical colleagues to speak, make their host.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Can I get thumbs up if you can hear me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Can you please speak up? We can't hear you. Still can't hear. Please speak to make sure you're audible.
>> SAJIA YARMAL: Technical problem.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Technical team will solve this after the next speaker. Jumping to the next speaker. Welcome you. Give you a few minutes to introduce yourself. Audience and everyone know you. Everyone knows you. (audio difficulties).
>> LIMA MADOMI: I am from India. Society of organization called CCUI. Currently chairing IGF, Asia‑Pacific region Internet Governance Forum. (audio difficulties) school of internet governance since their formation. Invited me to speak. Different time to be. I have seen how young people especially women from Afghanistan been participating in various discussions related to IT and internet governance forum. Participate in a lot of IT discussions. I think we can hear at this point of time. Speak first. Can't hear you at this point in time. I think this is an important topic, especially inclusion. Championing equal rights to everyone to education, participate technology obviously.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Is the problem solved? Speakers and audience.
>> LIMA MADOMI: Can you hear me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Test with you, can you please talk so we can make sure you're audible?
>> LIMA MADOMI: Hi. Can you hear me? Can you hear me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Our apologies for the technical issues. We'll be resuming in a few minutes until the technical team.
We'll continue with on‑site speakers as well as with the audience. I have audience members. Already tried to have you today. Participation not only welcomed essential to current session and discussion. Please feel free to jump in, engage, ask questions, share your perspectives throughout the session.
Our program is designed in a way to encourage to look at the exchange of ideas. I encourage everyone to take this opportunity to connect, learn and grow together.
I have a question. Any of our speakers can maybe talk of their experiences, been to Afghanistan, working with everyone in different ways. I'm sure Miti has similar experiences. Anyone from our audience, also jump in.
Anybody your experience, if are connected with Afghanistan, what is the current situation regarding Afghan woman's access woman to technology and education given the recent restrictions such as bans on education and limited internet. You are most welcome. Anyone can talk about that.
Are you going first? Thank you.
>> Sadly, I think this is something all of us would agree be (audio difficulties) that the current situation is not all that great when women get access to education. They don't have the rights, right to internet or ICT. It is not a very healthy situation considering families to nurture the next generation. It's not only their own personal benefit. Even children studying also need, if they have educated mothers, well educated, et cetera, helps the family to bring them up. Forget about rights. If you will not allow a woman to study, will not allow a woman to access technology, I think it's a sad state of affairs. It will not even help any country for that matter because 40 percent would be women in that population, (audio difficulties)
Do I continue speaking?
If you want economically for a country to benefit, you will have to allow every gender to have equal access to education, ICT and opportunities.
(speaking off microphone)
How is it?
There were some questions you had, what can be done. If we could have the online speakers participating they know more than us, we are observers, but they have faced it. They are trying to do a lot of things, it could be really good if we could actually have those voices heard.
Unfortunately, not being as inclusive as possible in this session, so yes, I guess that is for me at this point of time. If you want to add something to it. I think I'll pass it on to more to speak because we are not getting the people.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Before I jump to the next speaker, I would like to invite you to speak. Please come over. You're welcome to join us. Can you please unmute yourself and talk? Make sure you're audible.
>> Can you hear me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Is it okay with you guys?
>> Unfortunately, we are not able to hear you at all. Very like the breaking a lot and it's very low. We are, unfortunately, not able to hear you, but I'm happy you can hear us.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: You're very clear. I want to make sure you're experiencing the same.
>> LIMA MADOMI: Exactly the same. Difficult to hear you guys there.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: I would request my technical team to resolve this issue as well so we will be jumping to you guys.
Welcome. Than I do have you here. Give the opportunity to identify yourself, talk a little bit more about yourself and the question I raised about the current situation with women despite the current situation, education and access to internet. Over to you.
>> OMAR ANSARI: Hello. I hope everybody can hear me. Yes? My name is Sono Siveri. I'm the advisor to the APNIC Foundation just talked about and the work that the do. APNIC Foundation is deeply committed to its work on both gender equality and social inclusion. And so with my background in gender and evaluation, perhaps there is something I could shed some light on what is happening in Afghanistan.
I've had the opportunity to work on gender with a number of multilaterals in Afghanistan in the past and perhaps one of the parallels that we could take for the situation that is happening today was perhaps during the time of COVID when there was a moratorium on physical access to education and what were some of the challenges that we faced and some of the solutions that we were able to find.
From the work that I've done in that country, what is critical to address of course the connectivity to make sure that the last mile is available and to have devices and the digital learning in the languages that is suitable for education. Beyond that, it's also very important to work on the social norms.
Without addressing the social norms, what we found out that the uptake for the tools and the curriculum that was provided was minimal. There are ways in which to get around that and some of those ways are to have a strategy to address the social norms within the families, within the communities, with religious leaders, with community leaders, and once you are able to do that, there is a lot of buy‑in for girls and women to access education.
We also have to understand what is access. Access is not merely infrastructure. Access is also able to use the device. And often, you will know in many of these communities, and I think as in Afghanistan, many situations in other countries where you have vulnerable populations, the problem is that a device is often a family device. It's not necessarily a woman's device. It's not necessarily exclusively for women and girls for their education.
Having understood that, that access to a device is very much connected to what are the cultural norms in that community, the sort of device that is available. If you do have a device, it may not be a smartphone, so you're not able to take the complete benefit of whatever digital tools and curriculum that you developed.
So what we found is that community spaces, often some people call them safe spaces, spaces where women and girls are able to go and to learn is critically important. Otherwise, because of the social norms, gender norms, responsibilities for the care, for domestic chores, takes them away from a concerted effort to spend time on their education.
I think whether when we look at Afghanistan today in the development and conflict nexus, we have lessons from other countries around the world on how to use digital tools so that we are able to promote education and ensure that all girls will benefit from that.
I'm happy to take questions if you would like to know more about safe space and community engagement. I'm going to stop here and see if we can get our online participants to talk a little bit more about the situation right now. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Find very tangible issues and problems Afghan women will face.
I will come to again to what you mentioned. Before that, I would like to make sure remote speakers are audible and also they can hear us well.
Over to my moderation. To start. Give to the next speaker. Over to you Lima because Lima is my co‑coordinator and she will be doing the moderation. I will give it over to Lima to do this herself, and then give the floor to the next speaker. Over to you, Lima.
>> LIMA MADOMI: Hello everyone. I don't know if you can hear me. Unfortunately, we are struggling to hear you. But as long as you can hear me, I'll go ahead and start.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: You're audible.
>> LIMA MADOMI: Okay, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us and my name is Lima Madomi. I am a research and teaching assistant at University of Geneva. My background in technology. I have been working in technology for the past almost 10 years. I was a fellow of Internet Governance Forum. In addition to that, I have worked for a very long time in Afghanistan with Omar and with everyone there in different technological sections especially for women and technology. Yeah, I'm really happy to be here and will be helping as a co‑moderator.
Please let me know if there is anything and I will be informing you about any messages in chat or anything out here. Zhala Sarmast is here with us. Unfortunately, Farzaneh will not be able to join us. I am hoping that Maria will be joining us soon. So back to you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much, Lima. Happy to have you. Over to you to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about yourself. Over to you.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Can you hear me? Hello everyone. It's nice to virtually meet you. My name is Zhala Sarmast. I'm based in Singapore. I currently work with a technology/manufacturing facility is Singapore and Canada. My background is very heavily in hard sciences, specifically chemistry and also media. I studied at Yale US college what I earned my Bachelors of Science with honours.
Aside from that, I'm a musician, I'm an athlete with the national women's cycling team that was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016. Aside from all of these things, I worked with a big group of Afghan students every year especially those that try to get access to educational opportunities outside of Afghanistan. So that is something that is very close to my heart because it's an experience that I've gone through applying to universities to try to get a good education so that's something that is very important to me.
Then with my work with media, we constantly try to work on digital learning campaigns and digital sort of educational platforms for Afghan women, Afghan youth, Afghans in general so I'll be diving a little bit more deeper into that in the questions.
That's it in a nutshell. It's very nice to meet all of you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Very inspiring. Over to you.
>> SAJIA YARMAL: Thank you. Good morning everyone. My name is Sajia Yarmal and I am based in Germany. I'm originally from Afghanistan, unfortunately a country now we are under the Taliban regime, being a woman feels like a crime. It's true. Woman in my country face endless restrictions.
We cannot speak freely, make our own decisions where to go or what to do. I'm thankful for the opportunity, at least in this moment and this space, is to raise my voice and shed light on these critical issues facing Afghan woman especially access to digital resources and unfortunately for education in this difficult time.
For me, actually, it doesn't matter if you know my personal background. What matters is that we are gathered here to talk about the women of my country, the women who are suffering every day and their voices silent and their dreams are stolen.
For these woman, the only glimmer of hope, as a woman, all around the world stand United. Struggles for solution and proposed solutions and all over the international community to ensure that even not a single woman is silent, excluded, or denied for most basic rights.
Thank you. This is my session for today's sessions.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Happy to have you on the panel.
My first question was regarding the current situation of Afghan women and access to technology and education given the recent restrictions.
I would like to get your views, Sajia, on this because you are Afghan and experienced with these. What is it like in your findings on the current situation of Afghan women and access to technology and education considering the current restrictions on women?
>> SAJIA YARMAL: Thank you for the question. Let me give you all some context in this regard. So the since the Taliban took part in Afghanistan in August 2021, Afghanistan has been in a deep crisis especially for women and girls. The Taliban's policies have pushed women out of public life. Girls are banned in schools. Women cannot go to community. They cannot work. Even they cannot go to public parks or baths. These restrictions isolate us somehow women and destroy progress we worked so hard to achieve.
Restrictions keep every day increasing leaving women without hope or opportunities. For nearly three years now, Afghan women have been faced to stay at home like prisoners in their own houses. In this difficult situation, access to digital tools and internet has become a lifeline for many Afghan women. The internet can open doors to education, jobs, and even a way to raise their voices. Political restrictions and Taliban policies have made this access even harder increasing inequality and silencing woman even more.
I think one major problem is the Taliban's control over the internet. In many places, there is no internet at all, and in the areas where there is internet, the Taliban, some sort of content, make it impossible to access educational programs, news, or global platforms.
They also monitor online activities so women fear being tracked or somehow punished for breaking the Taliban's rules. As a result, women are not only restricted physically, but also, they are digitally trapped.
I think the second problem or challenge is Afghanistan's economy collapsed. Smartphones computers, internet services are too expensive for most families especially for women dependent on members, family members for financial support, this makes access even harder.
When families have limited resources, they cannot prioritize, they cannot ‑‑ sorry. Do you hear me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Yes.
>> SAJIA YARMAL: Hello.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: You're audible. We can hear you.
>> SAJIA YARMAL: I'm hearing you guys very hard, but I will continue my presentation on my speech.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Yes. Please. Continue.
>> SAJIA YARMAL: As I mentioned, when the families have limited resources, they often prioritize boys and men over women and girls for internet access and devices.
Last but not least, focus on biggest barriers which education. We all know education is the key to using technology, but Afghan girls are banned from schools and universities. This means millions of Afghan women and girls cannot learn the basic skills to use technology. Without schools and higher education, they lose the chance to connect with the digital world and access the opportunities it offers.
I think the impact of this restriction is devastating. Education could give Afghan women a chance to learn even we have education bans. Platform that teaching, coding, language, or professional skills could help women improve their lives, but without access to the internet or basic digital skills, women are left out and cycle and poverty and dependence continues.
I have seen how powerful digital tools can be. Connect with the world and fight for their rights. Also seen how the lack of internet or access leaves women feeling hopeless and isolated. For Afghan women, the digital world is not just a tool. I think it's a lifeline. It gives women a chance to regain control of their lives in the society that has taken away their independence and their rights.
Restrictions are not just rules. They are somehow tools of control to take away Afghan women's dignity and future.
So as a last point, what can we do for this situation? The situation is hard, of course, but it's not impossible. There are steps that governments, organizations, and individuals can take to help Afghan woman access digital tools. International organizations could or should work to provide safe and affordable internet for Afghan women or for Afghan people. Tools like VPN and encrypted communication can also help bypass censorship. Online programs can help women to build, slow internet. And international communities also, I think they must continue pursuing Taliban to respect women's rights, including rights to education and have access on internet or technology.
There is also the possibility that tech companies and governments can stand against censorship and mentoring the regulation which, nowadays, we are experiencing in Afghanistan.
Some points from my view can help Afghan women to have access to the internet and have opportunity to develop and to work for their skills. I think if we focus on problems and proposed solutions and follow up with them, bring opportunity for every one of us to solve the problem which we are, especially women in Afghanistan, are facing in Afghanistan.
So these are my points. Can you hear me? If you are able to hear me, I will be here for other questions as well, but for this discussion, that was my points.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: thank you. Thank you very much. Critical issues regarding situation of Afghan women and access to education and technology. Considering your points.
Jump to how do such barriers, internet blockages, unreliable electricity, gender‑based inequalities of Afghan woman, woman's ability to connect to digital resources and participate in educational opportunities.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Thank you. We responded to pointing out the obvious, responded to this question. Daily basis see how internet blockages, fear of posting something online or accessing, I'm not going to really say accessing quality education.
Think blockages, blockages more than three years ago, still possible to access internet content. Need IT or tech expert to shed some light on how, if that is the case. Content can still be accessed.
Important to remember, before the Taliban took over, we had significant challenges when it came to access to digital devices and access to internet.
Previously, for our guests that were not there, question looked at some statistics that were quite dramatic when we were looking at access to digital devices and the internet amongst male and female sort of users across Afghanistan.
Even though the number of users getting access to internet and digital devices has been increasing over time, women's access to digital devices has been very drastic. If I remember this correctly, in the rural areas of Afghanistan, access of women to digital tech devices was 2% only. And for the male, it was somewhere near I think 55%. Shows like a significant difference.
Of course, this has become even more severe after the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan. If we don't have internet blockages, there's a very strong fear of resisting some of the policies in place such as the closure of schools and educational institutions, but not to mention that that is still resistance through many different kinds of responses whether it's art, whether it's different sort of initiatives through media outlets, whatever. I think that is a separate question. I'm going to focus on the impact for the moment.
I think unreliable electricity is one issue we constantly struggled with in Afghanistan even as I was growing up. Frequent limited internet or like power blockages across Afghanistan limit Afghan people, specifically Afghan women's access to online platforms that can offer education and skills training or career development.
Aside from that, one thing always stood out to me working with students every year is gender‑based inequality. I'm going to provide more personal kind of response to this so we look at tangible examples of what I mean when I say gender‑based inequalities.
For me, working with students has always been kind of focus and boys getting access to quality education and opportunities than women. If a family can afford digital devices, prefer for the sons more than the daughters. Cannot generalize, but my experience to a major extent.
When I work with online applications with colleges, different students, Afghan sons, I think relatively easier to get to access to digital education where women would have to juggle house chores, in school, all the other things they have.
Lots of things that can fall into that umbrella of gender‑based inequalities. You get my point. I'll wrap it up here. Look forward to the next session.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much for sharing your insights. Over to you. A violence against women question here. How can digital literacy skilled programs be designed for Afghan women, for the challenges they face? What is your point of view? How can these issues be tackled?
>> I think designing of the program have to be such that it is language. (audio difficulties) it can also work in job opportunities. Possibility of having download options. (audio difficulties).
>> ZHALA SARMAST. Sorry, audio not too good. Trying to get the community involved, going to be inefficient. (audio difficulties) courses designed in such a way. (audio difficulties).
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: You said you have good examples. Share some examples of initiatives or programs that have empowered Afghan women through technology or providing access to education, skills, economic opportunities.
I would like to remind very dear audience that you are most welcome to raise your hands if you have any questions. If you have any ideas or opinions to share with us, you are most welcome to raise your hand and we'll give you the opportunity as well. Pillar of this discussion.
>> Thank you very much. I hope everyone can hear me?
So what I wanted to share, I would like to reiterate that gender rights are human rights and that has to be (audio difficulties) successful programs. Understand (audio difficulties) raise your hand if you can't hear me at any point. Trying to get my train of thought back.
What I wanted to say, wherever we talk about gender, we cannot forget ideas that are behind gender. One of them as we mentioned, (no audio) deeply, male entitlement means that men and boys have more opportunities and better access. Escape ‑‑ one moment. May I speak again? Is this clear? Okay. What I want ‑‑ no. Is this great?
I wanted to say we have to understand that gender is about gender relations. And unless we acknowledge that there is something called male entitlement, we are not going to go far.
Second, we have to understand systems and structures, institutional structures of family and community that are in a sense skewed against acknowledging opportunities for women and girls.
Unless we address both of them, it's going to be very difficult to have gender quality or gender access to education and we heard examples, real life examples, of how boys could access but girls could not.
The whole problem of domestic responsibilities and care which hinder girls and women even when they have access to devices, even when they have the tools, digital tools, they will not be able to make full use of them because of these problems. Their time is divided.
What I wanted to talk about, very important aspect is mobility. There is so much restriction on the mobility of women, where they go, what they do. That is one of the opportunities of having internet and the digital access in order to be able to go beyond it.
Now, as you mentioned, one of the problems is to have the connectivity, and in order for women to manage connectivity, to have the space and the time to spend on themselves, and to have that education, we have found that having community spaces, community engagement and safe spaces for girls to come to provides the best opportunity for them to learn.
What does that mean? The community buy‑in of religious leaders, of elders, of men in the community, in the family, is absolutely essential. Having got that, having got that trust and confidence, you are able to provide the space for women and girls to come to these spaces to learn, and the change that happens is quite spectacular in the sense that girls and women understand that there is a whole world outside their little homes and little communities that they are working in and that they this can learn and achieve a great deal.
Many of them, because of what they have learned, have been able to help their families economically as well. These opportunities are then appreciated, but we need to understand that we have to place some foundational blocks within the social norm space, gender equal space, in order for digital access and internet capability. It cannot happen without it and that is what I wanted to stress.
There's one more thing I want to say before I give up the mic is that there are many ways of intervening in this. We talk about the microspaces, community spaces. Talk about the mezzos as hopefully getting some sort of buy‑in from the government or other SSI systems and institutions. Religious institutions, very, very important.
What about the global community? I think we have a tremendous responsibility in a forum such as this, others, to advocate for women's rights to education for Afghan women and what they're facing too. Is the voice loud enough? Are we doing enough?
It's not just women talking about it. I'm really happy to see we have men and women in this room advocating for Afghan women's rights, but we need to have a much louder voice in the international forums that we go to and we do have the clout in order to do that. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Thank you for theses kind of solutions, building the community‑based spaces for women.
I would like to ‑‑ yes. Sure. You can't hear? Perfect. Perfect. We have a question from one of our audience. You want to speak. Over to you.
>> I forgot the lady from Afghanistan's name. My question is a directed to her. I'm from South Africa. I work with women and girls and after you gave your speech, I thought of one question I wanted to find out.
So once women are empowered and you've done what you've done, what is next for a woman in Afghanistan? Are they able to study business? Are they able to get a job? What does the empowerment means? What does it mean to have a women's voice, besides the security issues? From a family point of view. Does it change the scenario for them for their families? Do they get respect or what?
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Can I ask, is it me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Zhala, Willing to answer.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Was that directed to me?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Let's give the space to first Zhala. You can share your experience.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Okay.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: First to Sajia.
>> ZHALA SARMAST, Sajia, go ahead.
>> SAJIA YARMAL: Thank you for asking the questions. I think this is a good point. Let me explain this from my own experience.
I'm 30 years old growing up in Afghanistan. It means before Taliban took power in Afghanistan, the women had an opportunity to grow up in Afghanistan peacefully in environment with lots of opportunities which we worked for, as I mentioned in my speech before.
We went to school. We went to university. We got the job. And we start even our own businesses. So these were the opportunities which we had in the previous or last government in the past 20 to 30 years.
And besides that, I think we should look at the rights of women the same as human rights. I mean, if you are talking about women rights, which they have, it doesn't matter if it's Afghanistan or if it's in another country or society, we have to respect these rights.
It doesn't matter if they really achieve something big. The progress is important. For me, as young woman in Afghanistan, had experienced to work there, to get education there, that was opportunity for me to work for myself or my family and for my society. We had opportunities to get involved in many activities in Afghanistan. National and international communities, which we had in Afghanistan, and also the platforms which we experienced in Afghanistan.
We not only brought these opportunities to Afghanistan and used these opportunities as well, and not only me, there were like most of the population of Afghanistan are young generations, so not only men, not only women, also men benefit from these opportunities which we had in Afghanistan.
I think you could add here points of view in this regard, but I think that was opportunity for all women in Afghanistan. And if we ignore those opportunities, so I think also, in the future, we cannot really work on Afghan woman and opportunities which we could bring in Afghanistan.
Over to you.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Thank you, Sajia, and thank you for the question.
I find the question a little bit interesting. I don't exactly know what you mean when you say so when women are empowered, what's next.
For the past 50 to 70 years in Afghanistan, the focus has been to get women empowered to give women education, to give women financial independence, to give women literacy. So I think once you empower women, women are treated as an equal human being in the society, which I think is the ultimate goal. That is why we strive for education, like I said. Economic inclusion, political inclusion, social inclusion, et cetera.
Again, not sure exactly what you mean by that when you say so when women are empowered, what's next. I think when women are empowered, they make economic contributions, they make political contributions. They have financial independence, which is big deal in the world nowadays because it actually stops women from getting access to so many things because they're not financially independent.
I hope that my response is precise enough to address the question, but if it's still not clear, I would be happy to respond in more detail.
>> LIMA MADOMI: I'm trying to answer it in a different way. India also has a very patriarchal system. Of course, it's not as extreme as it is in Afghanistan, but there are some experiences. I'll just give you some analogies.
I have a friend of mine, she did her education accountancy. She came from a business family. The women used to not study after their class 10, which is 16 years, then she got into a job.
There was a lot of opposition in her family. She was the first in her house to do so. When they saw her doing economically well, earning money, in her own terms, and getting respect in the society, all of her other family members, children in the extended family, the girls, got a chance to study, to get into jobs, choose their own kind of careers and even decide when they want to get married.
Do you remember in India, still have a lot of arranged marriages where women have to marry within a particular age. So people see with education, with employability, those things change. When money starts coming into families, the questions also change. That's hard facts which has been seen.
Similarly, many of the women, it's not necessary for them to even go for a job or even go to something, but they will be able to teach the kids at home what is right, what is wrong, what is needed in a progressive society. I'm not saying wearing western clothes, but having an open mind. Education brings that. That's why we talk about education, why reading is important.
An illiterate mother may not be able to push the children to study all that much, but to get an interest in it, you will be helping that family also to uplift.
If you can work, you should have a right what you want to work. That's a fundamental right. (audio difficulties)
Okay, that's a fundamental thing. But I think it helps to uplift the family also.
For example, medical health, many times in remote places or many places where women cannot even go out of the house, if you have some basic knowledge, you will not get into medical sciences.
For example, many times they don't want to go to doctors. They want to go to quacks. If you have education, you will know what it means to even go to a doctor. May be small things, but they help even a family, not only the woman.
I think she wants to add something.
>> I think the points that we're trying to advocate here, I want to flip it over its head for one minute and maybe talk about, ask the question.
All of us are trying to talk about empowering Afghan women. Can we pause and ask who and what can Afghan women and girls empower in turn?
I think the question we need to ask, who what can Afghan women empower? There so many socioeconomic outcomes that Afghan women, the resilient women and girls that they are in this society, in this region of the world, the sort of economic outcomes they can help achieve the sort of (audio difficulties) they can pay if they have the financial opportunities and the financial ability, culturally as well to move around in the economy, the socioeconomic outcomes that they can help unlock, the sort of future generations they can bring up that, in turn, can contribute to society.
I think we need to flip this narrative a little bit on its head and ask are women in power only and only if they're just allowed the space to be would they want to be, to speak how they want to speak, to do exactly what they want to do, and I think everyone stands to gain with that. Right? Absolutely everyone. The government, men, boys, women, themselves, society as a whole.
>> LIMA MADOMI: And I think organizations which are helping to do that, for example today, many organizations nationally who want to do something within the country is not allowed, cannot fund those kind of projects, these are happening in the community which can help the country. (audio difficulties)
So I think these kind should be allowed to work or network operators grew, or I don't know if ethic foundation can put in money in Afghanistan to help in many of those social uplifting programs, et cetera, but I think the international community and community at large could look at those things, what are the tools which are needed for empowerment, different types of empowerment. One is rights. One is civic rights, et cetera. Human rights, et cetera. In terms of uplifting digital technologies, making life easier through technology, even communicating. I think those are important things we need to think of.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Any questions or you want to clarify something? Sure. Okay.
>> From here? Like this? Oh, okay.
I think what can Afghanistan women do to empower their world and other women? For me, how we should be looking at it and not purely because we will learn something. I think it's to open the world for the girls who are being empowered and not knowing what's outside for them, especially the internet world.
I know lots of programs, I read a lot about Afghanistan, that helps with coding. Women who worked with us who was teaching women how to code. What those girls were offering the job market, the skills were meticulous. I learned so many things from just listening to what they were talking about.
I'm going to give another example. The women in Gaza offering a mentorship program to some of my girls in South Africa. They are in a very difficult situation, but they still have time, when they do get that limited access to internet, to contribute and teach coding to other girls. But for them, it's just to know what is the outside world. How do you contribute?
The main thing here is, we can go anywhere we want in the world. Unless we address what she just talked about, which is male entitlement, nobody is empowered. As much as we want to say we are empowered as women, our position is to address what she's talking about, which is male entitlement.
Any woman who is empowered has to face male entitlement, but if women from all over the world come together, especially in an online space and empower each other, it's going to give us more power and more voice break these women's rights that's taken away from women.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Over to you. Can you hand over the mic to her? Can you help me to pass the mic, please?
>> SHAUNA HOFFMAN: Can you hear me? Excellent.
My name is Shauna Hoffman and I'm from the U.S.A. and I'm an AI expert. I have been little over 25 years. The question that I have, thank you for being brave. Thank you for being here today, all of you.
The women empowerment, I love what you just said about that. I would love to make that more tangible. How can those of us outside of Afghanistan help empower the local women? What is it that you need?
I know there's rules. There's specific boundaries, we would say, for the local women, but what can we do? You mentioned cell phones. Can we collect cell phones, let's say, from the United States and ship them over? Could we provide some sort of internet access? Is it more funds to get the internet access? What can we do?
Then also, we're actually going on a tour in Afghanistan in October and one of the tour groups mentioned there were 300 businesses ran by women that we are going to be seeing during that tour. I'd love to understand a little bit more about that and the women's rights.
Question number one is, what can we tangibly do for you? If I bring cell phones over with me, can we pass them out? Is that helpful?
The second step is, what are women's rights locally for those who are running businesses and trying to continue on with what they had prior to three years ago?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Is the question open to any speaker who can tackle this or this specifically?
>> Am I audible? India government has a scheme wherein if a girl, in certain states, if a girl in her class 12 does above particular mark, she gets a laptop. They got a laptop. But then it was transferred. Laptop was given to the brothers. That also happened.
You may be giving the cell phone. Who is going to recharge it? Who will have access to it? Those things are also some things you have to think of. Where will they recharge if there is no electricity? Those things should be thought. It's just not giving it over, but how do you continue it?
I'm not saying it's not a bad idea, but you will have to look at the entire chain of events.
>> SHAUNA HOFFMAN: That brings up a very good point. Kenya, where we purchased cell phones for those who are local, we also provided them the cell phone, the solar service. For those in Afghanistan or who have been recently, what would be something that you could say here's something you really could do that's tangible that will actually help us?
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Anyone, do you want to tackle this question.
>> LIMA MADOMI: I wanted to point out one very important thing. I'm sorry for breaking in like this.
When we talk about empowerment and when we talk about the tangible help to Afghanistan, there is one very important thing that we are actually, I think, forgetting and that is the political situation for Afghanistan.
If we are providing all of this help, it could be a potential life risk for many women living out there. So when we are doing these things, we should consider those things and we should also think about how we could do some of this potential support we are providing or empowerment that we are doing in the sense that it does not threaten their life.
I think one of most important things will be instead of providing them with some of this help, it would good if we could provide them educational opportunities. If there are like, for example, schools or universities or some mentorship and some of these programs that could help them to be empowered and to help themselves, that could be something more valuable because some of these other things, of course, they are enormously valuable, but they could also be a threat to their life.
In certain situations, we are working like hidden and they are not part of the government and political, no one is aware they were working. When we were helping them in these things, we are actually bringing them up to the front and that could be a potential risk for their lives and for the families' lives.
So I think it's more about how we could empower them in terms of education and in terms of giving them some skills and opportunities that they could help themselves. That could be more valuable. That's my opinion. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much.
>> SHAUNA HOFFMAN: Thank you for bringing that up. That's an extremely good point. We wouldn't want to have anything negative. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Over to you, Zhala.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Thank you so much for sharing that. Those are all great points. Great we have an A.I. expert in the room with us.
Yeah. I find that working with initiatives on the ground has been the most helpful. So there are initiatives on the ground that work within like different areas in landscape. Yes, it's dangerous, yes, it's extremely risky, but to be able to make a little bit of progress, we constantly growing up had to break rules in Afghanistan. That's a given unfortunately.
Another I think very tangible thing that I think can make a lot of impact is not just working with women actually. Working with male of the families and just religious scholar. You'll have to work with people that are of value, that are respected, that are listened to across Afghanistan.
For us, whether it's working on different digital literacy campaign or whether it's working with students on their college applications forms, et cetera, et cetera, not just working with the group of students themselves, but at the same time, working with decisionmaker of the families or their brothers and fathers. That has been one thing that has been critical to me in my work and needs to be considered.
Lots of awareness, keeping in mind that Afghanistan is in the midst of a humanitarian crisis, so there are lots of other priorities now that a lot of people are focusing on. If those are kind of addressed, it will open doors and give people space to think about some of the other things that are needed such as education, access to financial kind of opportunities, et cetera.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Very good from your experience on the ground.
Questions or views raised by the audience, also the thing raised. What and who can support the Afghan women based in Afghanistan?
Also, one of our audience said, from Nigeria or African country, the women in Gaza, despite the challenges they have, they're providing mentorship to the African women, but considering the current situation in Afghanistan, women totally banned for work or for education, to be in a male‑dominant society, so how the Afghan woman dare liberate the internet and digital resources to overcome these challenges to build like meaningful opportunities for themselves and for their community.
This question could be answered by Zhala as well because she recently pointed to a few points relevant, as well Sunal gave some examples.
How impactful those solutions or work to empower women to have access to education despite current situation we are experiencing right now.
After this question, I would like to remind the APNIC Foundation colleagues, one of the points raised, how can the APNIC Foundation put money in the Afghan community to empower. I think you already do this through digitally, so I would like to have your view after Sunal shares her insights. Go to Zhala. Over to you.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: I think I'm going to get ‑‑ okay. I'm going to get up just to make sure that everybody can hear me and we don't have a break. I really like the question that you raised, what can you do that is tangible. Often, solutions are quite simple and they depend upon people and what people can do for each other.
So before I say that, I would say that one of the goals that we must remember when we are talking women in very fragile situations, is that we cannot do any harm. So I think the principle of do no harm must be the first principle that we follow when we are thinking about any sort of solutions for women in education, for economic empowerment, and so on.
Having said that, I think we have talked about getting buy‑in from the community, from the decisionmakers, from men who are in power, but I also think we should not forget that women too have power and how do we do that?
So in this case, it's not just the power of one because that's often difficult. You may become a target. What you can do is have peer‑to‑peer. That's possible. Can you set up systems so that girls and women can support each other? Having peer‑to‑peer strategies in your programs, in your solutions is, I think, absolutely important.
The other area is the collective. When there is a voice of many women that comes together, not one person is targeted, but collectively, collectively, they can advocate for what they want.
If you have 300 women entrepreneurs, that is a force to reckon with. How can you create a peer‑to‑peer support? How can you create a collective for them?
I've done some evaluations for ESCAP in the region. That's one of the lessons that we have learned. How do we support women and how can women support each other? I think that is something we should not forget. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Over to you.
>> ZHALA SARMAST: Designing targeted digital literacy programs requires a lot of different layers of considerations to deliver some impactful, but I think to address the challenge, again, it is very broad, but I think programs must be culturally sensitive and community oriented that would allow for the engaging of stakeholders that is going to include families and religious leaders and community leaders because this will build a lot of trust and encourage participation.
I think in most of the work that I have done in Afghanistan through media outlets, whether it's been through tech platforms or UN agencies, one thing we've constantly tried to integrate this inclusion of religious leaders and community leaders, because they're listened to and they can actually make a tangible impact.
Kind of like the inclusion of those stakeholders, I think, to me is an important strategy that can make quite a bit of a big impact.
Again, I think inclusion of male allies, like I said before, brothers and fathers and husbands, also very, very crucial to encourage their support because they can actually really make an impact and kind of paving the way to opening the way for their daughters and wives and sisters to get access to a lot of opportunity.
I think side from that, given the logistical limitations, of course another concern, program should focus on flexible and accessible delivery methods, how we're trying to ‑‑ I'm sorry, I'm trying to bring in real life examples of how we're trying to tackle these challenges because I think they might be helpful.
How we're trying to do this is not just delivering whether it's animated content or whatever educational kind of content online, but also using brochures, for instance, or banners across the countryside and in the rural areas where people don't necessarily have access to digital devices or internet or electricity that much. Taking into consideration, I think, logistical limitations is of course another big issue.
Security is, of course, the biggest consideration. We have to keep in mind that a lot of people in Afghanistan right now are putting their own lives at risk, but they are working with underground schools, working with initiatives inside their houses, so if they can take that much risk to allow other girls to get access to educational opportunities, we can take our part in contributing to that, whether it's books or however kind of content that can be helpful to them.
There are different kinds of things we can take into consideration keeping in mind the logistical, cultural, and other issues to be able to make tangible impact. I think it's quite broad, so I can't fit everything into one response.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much.
You like mentioned about censorship and also access to women of educational material. Zhala pointed out about involving find out about the involving of the religious scholars as well as providing content, brochures or books whatsoever to Afghan woman and how to support them to have access to education.
Like you said, about censorship, it's not just about we say censorship, doesn't mean only about internet. Offline world can ban anyone especially the women in Afghanistan to have access to those tangible assets including brochure and books.
Do you think it will be impactful or, at worst, to empower women and to have access to education and as well as have access to the content which supports access to education?
>> SAJIA YARMAL: Thank you. I think to the last point, all solution, which everyone shares, powerful, but let's do not forget the current situation in Afghanistan because when we are all proposing this solutions, so think about the situation, how can we propose this solution and implement this solution we are proposing or talking about, even with the international communities, because if there is a solution for Afghan woman regarding empowering woman in regards to education and et cetera, so we should keep in mind that these activities will be affected by the Taliban's government, groups which they have the power right now in Afghanistan, because without allowing or without the allowance from these groups, we cannot provide these solutions for Afghan women living in Afghanistan.
Do something online, we all ensure they have access to the internet, they have access to computers or laptops and they have opportunities to use from these online opportunities.
We are nor sure they have these opportunities, so we cannot also be sure about the result of this solution we are providing them or opportunities we are giving to Afghan women.
You mentioned censorship and special censorship in Afghanistan during this situation in Afghanistan. That is true. Censorship is quite large in Afghanistan right now.
They are trying to sensor the contents, not only contents of news agencies and reporters, which they were working currently in Afghanistan even in this whole situation. These restrictions make the situation even harder for the people of Afghanistan especially women in Afghanistan, and if we do not focus making the current rule or government in Afghanistan responsible to answer for all the restrictions or all the things, the rights which they are denying as a human rights or woman's rights in Afghanistan, for women in Afghanistan, it won't work and it won't be as impactful as we are talking about as we are expecting from the international community.
So my point is to let's focus on, let's put pressure on the Taliban or on the group which they are in power right now in Afghanistan, and let's make them responsible to accept women really as part of society to accept and to give them opportunity to grow up.
Women in Afghanistan do not need support of anyone else when have the opportunity or when the atmosphere is really for them to grow up, when there is opportunity and when is a good atmosphere to grow up, so they can do it by themselves.
Of course, the international community can help with funding project or develop project, but still, women are able in Afghanistan or capable to work by themselves and to achieve their goals, what they have, but international community can only make the Taliban responsible for their acts, for denying the rights of women, for denying the human rights in Afghanistan. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: I would like to jump to Niti on the global aspect, to the community aspects. I'm not touching on the political side, but in terms of like technical capabilities or the mandate of taking the international community to empower women, have access to education, like Anja mentioned.
Specifically for the Afghan women, what is your point of view? How can the international community support Afghan women to have access to education and as well as access to the technology and internet? What is your point of view outside Afghanistan and working with international organizations specifically like APNIC Foundation?
Before, I said like APNIC Foundation rules and supporting the education in Afghanistan and you're currently running the digital project. Would like to hear your insights and views on this.
>> Thank you so much. As the APNIC Foundational, it's wonderful ‑‑ can you hear me?
Wonderful we're being able to see as many community‑oriented, as many sort of initiatives across the board, whether it's with women and girls, whether it's with participants and increasing representation in the technical community, et cetera, but I believe if you're talking about Afghan women and girls, need to have (no audio) lots of girls, these efforts are not going to be enough. We need systemic structural changes and we need to have a whole of society approach to that.
For different players to come in, what they can, what they're good at, what their expertise is, we'll need to work in lock step. We'll need to work with one another to be able to understand what sort of capabilities can be contributed, how these pieces fit in.
To my colleague who mentioned would it be helpful to bring in devices, sure. What about the normative attitudes and beliefs that would actually prevent the use of such devices, right?
So I don't think that infrastructure on its own would mean anything until and unless we're also structurally then working alongside government. As much as we may not want to, but we do need to work with government to make sure that women are allowed to be participants in the economy because to my previous point as well, I think that benefits everyone. Not just benefits women and girls and gender‑diverse people, but it also benefits men, boys, government, society, et cetera.
We need to be advocating for equal participation in society in the economy because I feel like human rights argument, even though we believe in it, even though we want to advocate in favor of human rights, gender rights, et cetera, I feel like practically, is the case with my country, we seem to have lost the plot there. We have. We have lost the plot there.
If governments need to be partnered with, if we want to partner with governments, the narrative and belief system have to be grounded in human rights absolutely, but we also need to be sure that we are offering governments, companies, private sector players, technical communities, Civil Society, what they need.
The government wants to see a thriving economy. Sure. So let's invite women in, unlock their economic potential, see how they can participate in the economy and go from there.
We perhaps need to sort of ground this and understand this from gaps if we want to partner with different stakeholders. We can play to their narrative without losing ours, what we want.
I'm sure that is not going to be a simple, you know, endeavor. Not going to be simple. Quite challenging to work with government that we have in Afghanistan in the moment, but if we are looking at systemic structural changes, go beyond individual efforts, community efforts, not that I'm discounting those at all, we need to be ‑‑ we need to understand how we can get stakeholders to buy into this agenda because the first question every stakeholder asks is, what is in it for me? Why is it that I should support this vision?
Controversial thought, but I leave it at that.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you very much. Great people. Great thoughts.
Do you want to add something as you're leading the project of this Digital Leap and about your work in Afghanistan? Can you help me pass the mic, please? Thank you.
>> OMAR ANSARI: Can you hear me well? I'll introduce myself. Omar Ansari. Leading the project called Digital Leap with the APNIC Foundation investment. The project aims to develop the capacity of network engineers and help them learn now skills.
With that, we do a lot of community building, bringing people together so they can share experiences and learn from each other. We support local national IGFs, operating groups, and other similar gatherings and platforms.
So Digital Leap, when we started the first cohort in 2023, we had nine women from Afghanistan who were networking engineers.
This year, in 2024, we have only four women in Afghanistan, so this means the number is decreasing. The first year, we had more women working in networking engineering, for example. They were trained in ICT in the past. Today, since the university is closed, women cannot go to school beyond grade 6. Means they're gradually, reducing in number.
For the four girls, it was very hard for me to see not being able to go to school in Afghanistan, so I had to move out. I was forced to move out.
Now, one of my girls, age nine, was running a YouTube channel. It was called the workshop, making robots, little moving devices. She just got admitted at a tech course on robotics. She was very excited about this certification. Told them she will be in January.
Afghan women, Afghan men and women both, in general, they have a lot of talent. They lived in a society that was affected by war for decades, but they have learned how to be resilient. And the resilience that was shown by the Afghan internet community in the past couple of years, from falling down to raising up again, it was quite a journey.
Lima is one of our participants from last year in Leap education and she is moderating this session. She's been leading many others like school on the internet governance of Afghanistan.
If they're provided with an opportunity, they can excel. They can. They cannot only contribute to the local socioeconomic development and be active in their own societies and have good lives and contribute to families, but they can also be participants of the global development processes.
Definitely, it's not just something that Afghans would be able to do it alone. As suggested by the panel, we need international friends and allies so we can work together. It's an issue for all of us to address.
The APNIC Foundation has really good plans for the future of the region. APNIC region. We cover 56 economies across Asia‑Pacific and the APNIC, there is a new APNIC Foundation, so he's very excited about this session, and we have four more sessions coming up. So I'll probably pass.
>> First, I would like to acknowledge all the speakers we had. We talked about getting people here. Some of them couldn't make it here due to some of the logistics issues we've had. So to your point earlier, something I want to point out, the world has a habit of moving on to something else. The problems in Afghanistan have probably getting worse in some ways.
It's a credit to my team that they've been able to pull off what they've done in Afghanistan and part South Asia over the last couple of years. A simple thing as sending money, not just other structural issues we're talking about, the international financial system doesn't even allow to us to send money to Afghanistan.
My colleagues, the few that we've managed to get to Saudi Arabia for this event, trial and tribulations my team went, done, those of us who lived in advanced economy, we have it easy, but just even getting money to get on a plane, it's not that easy for some our colleagues in some parts of world.
I think needs to be, one, we should not forget that when there is conflict and issues that arise in certain countries, then creates conflict, what happens to those that we've forgotten?
One of the reasons we wanted to host this session here was to ensure we don't forget that there still is this issue in Afghanistan, that women are still suffering.
The three women that you see on there screen there that couldn't make it to Riyadh, they are doing even though they're not, got my colleagues here from Afghanistan. Omar, of course, who's been a solid supporter and, in fact, he runs the program at the APNIC Foundation.
So yes, help is need. Thanks you are able to support us, please, we would love to see how we could work and do much, much more, but of course, we have to do it taking into account, there are certain issues that we can't just parachute in and do stuff and leave. That doesn't quite work, neither does it scale.
I see ladies holding up the sign which means I should shut up. I'll hand it back to you. We still have a lot of work to do in South Asia and Afghanistan in particular, some other economies as well. We have our new strategy just in formulation at the moment coming, what we're doing and perhaps come partner. Difference we make.
One thing I would like to say, we are more about action, not words. So what we do is not too long narratives and speeches, so I'll stop there. Thank you.
>> ABDUL GHAYOOR BAWARY: Thank you. Thank you very much. Big round of applause to all of our speakers, audience, panelists, moderators. Great speakers, everyone. Thank you very much.
It was a very pleasure to have you all here and I really appreciate you dedicated your precious time to attend the session and share your views and insights.
It was really good to have you all. I think we are done with the amount of time. Thank you very much and thanks to the APNIC Foundation for organizing this beautiful session. At the end, request for a group photo. Thank you. Bye.
(Applause)
I think we have someone, she has something to say. I'll pass the mic.
>> Hello everyone. Sorry. I'm Mary from (?)
In this room, this title is about women in Afghanistan, but please allow me to also speak about women who face similar challenges to Afghanistan women.
Women in Afghanistan face challenges similar to ours, but our situation is different as we are a democratic country where men and women have equal rights. However, women still face challenge in accessing education, technology, and job opportunities especially in rural areas.
This program has been granted for three years has greatly supported women like me in ICT. I kindly request to listen, to continue this program as it has made a significant difference in our lives. I also ask people to listen to help women in (?) implementing more programs.
Thank you.